@Gpoptosis | 570 followers
RICHARD DAWKINS: eugenics works in practice. It works for dogs.
PUG: [wheezing] actually the problem is that those in power decide which traits are to be selected for, meaning that de facto eugenics cannot 'work' in the sense of choosing 'good' genes, only arbitra- [asphyxiates]

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Total of 152 replies and 109 quotes found
In reply to @Gpoptosis
THE GHOST OF THE DEAD PUG: [in heaven, like all dogs] tell you what, eugenicists are clearly not a group who have been selected on the basis of their elevated reading comprehension skills [floats off]
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
To everybody saying that pugs are old breeds and their flat faces are a product of their sedentary lifestyles: this is a pug from 1745. It has long legs and a long face, and could probably breathe normally. Modern pugs are condemned to suffer because of overbreeding. pic.twitter.com/6t5SclkNtP
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
this is an exceptionally good tweet.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Human interventions in dog breeding has caused a near unbelievable spectrum of breeds. Many have their own specific problems unfortunately. Many breeders are now actively trying to assist nature to give the animals a better standard of life. I wish them well.
 
also

eu vi gente defendendo o argumento (EU VI GENTE DEFENDENDO O ARGUMENTO MEU DEUS) usando a agroindústria como exemplo

nenhuma espécie é melhorada geneticamente em seu próprio interesse. perus NÃO SUSTENTAM O PRÓPRIO PESO e caem pra frente pq são só peito. e por aí vai
 
As a human who was bred to resemble a Pug, I support this tweet 100%.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
That's exactly what he means by "works". People wanted to breed weird looking dogs that can't breathe properly. And they did it, it "worked". His whole point is that because something "works" that doesn't mean it's right. This point has flown right over his critics' heads.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
This is a very good explanation, and also, I feel really bad for how cute I find pugs.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
This little pupper will never be safe on an airplane without an oxygen mask. Breeders muck with nature to make "cuter" fogs and cats and in the end, the animals suffer.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
It's a testament to the cockroach-like survivability of carp these things live. Probably a lot haven't over the course of breeding them into mutated weirdo fish. Dawkins rejects creationism so hard, he's turned genetics/evolution into a religion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionhead_… pic.twitter.com/v3gMrVWtWe
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Adopt don't shop, and also consider the retro mops instead pic.twitter.com/p6KyertHR9
 
In reply to @ShadowTodd
this is the best and most to-the-point rebuttal I've seen to this mess
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
In 2013 my friend was walking a two year old bulldog and it literally died after being outside for 15 minutes because it was humid out. People with bulldogs incl the French variety: STOP IT. These dogs have to be artificiallly inseminated and given c-sections to give birth.
 
In reply to @BoosHund
Format shamelessly stolen from this fine tweet:
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
It’s like the man’s never owned a purebred dog and had to deal with thracheal collapse, hip displasia, heart murmur, or the plethora of other issues selective breeding has caused. Healthiest dogs, in my experience, are always mutts so what does that say.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I legit read his tweet just after I helped my Great Dane (with severe hip issues) down the stairs so he could go outside. You beat me to posting about how "superior" eugenics can be...
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Blue-eyed white cats and Dalmatians: "Wha? I can't hear you!!"
 
dammit why did I read the pug lines in Zizek's voice
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Imagine beautiful soldiers whose hips pop out when charging the enemy.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
My Gibbs. Yerp. Fortunately, born with a nose. pic.twitter.com/MnIuwQ2tnp
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Why did you mutilate the quote in order to make it seem like a brutal insensitive statement instead of what it really was? Misquoting Dawkins as an act of hatred is not decent. No wonder you hide your name and face.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Objectively, given the way inheritance works, there's no way for eugenics to even work at all. Anyone who talks about it doesn't understand how fucking impossible it is to ensure that the desired trait will be passed on or inherited.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
And from the Equine contingent: Halter-bred QH: Hi, I have so much muscle I can’t move and I break down by age ten but sure eugenics has worked for me. Thoroughbred: Hi, I’m more inbred than a cheetah. Arabian: My kids won’t be able to breathe but my owners think I’m pretty! pic.twitter.com/5Tbguudavv
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
dog eugenics were done for looks in dog shows, dawkins wants eugenics to be used for intelligence and health reasons. It wasnt a white supremacist thing.
 
Good! You have discovered the ideological, political and moral grounds on which eugenics is to be deplored, and precisely because selective breeding has been successful in the sad cases of dogs born incapacitated.

Quoting selectively is not at all honest, mind you.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I have a honest to goodness legit question. Let's say that we could hypothetically get rid of oncogenes. Nothing else changes. Is it eugenics if we got rid of cancer? Can we select against something that we universally agree is bad?
 
Every single person advocating for eugenics deserves a punch to the face; since some of you like dogs better than people here is a wheezing pug tearing apart Dawkin's argument:
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
What would be better than eugenics would be simply paying a self-selected set of people a pension if they agree to refrain from children. *self-selected*!
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
And then any farmer can point out that every vegetable and fruit you have ever eaten is the product of eugenics. Picking out one example to riducle an argument is bad form.
 
 
Alguien lo había hecho mejor antes parece
 
In reply to @IBlame
This pug post about sums it uphttps://twitter.com/gpoptosis/status/1228964276435550208?s=21
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Well, pugs have been bred to appeal to humans. It's obviously been very successful - just not so great for the pug. So you gotta ask - what are the corresponding traits that might be selected for by an industrial-capital elite?
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
While I agree that eugenics is shitty, this specific argument chooses a dog bred based on looks, not performance. Dogs bred for health, vigor, & aptitude are quite different. But that means they’re not being selected for color & appearance & don’t likely meet dog show standards.
 
 
 
Dawkins es un racista de mierda. Su islamofobia pasaba por cool, para algunos. Ahora queda más claro, su racismo y su idiotez.
 
I love that somebody else saw the Dawkins tweet and immediately thought of pugs.
 
In other words it works, but not the way I desire it.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Lmao. Pugs were exactly what came to mind when he said it works for dogs. Yeah. All those pure breeds with crazy amounts of health problems. *Works.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Dawkins supporters: "No, see, CLEARLY you just don't understand what he's saying since it's obviously so ABOVE you"
 
In reply to @MuiMui2010
I saw this exact rebuttal earlier, and it's spot (no pun intended) on. twitter.com/Gpoptosis/stat…
 
 
you can’t argue in good faith these are comparable. humans have objective traits observable in every person that affects their day to day life - if we had a more selective breeding process to make people more intelligent, more good looking, generally only good accompanies it
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
yet people still buy pugs
 
 
Pug is a Chinese dog. Explains it all.
 
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Fucking Kennel Club... should be prosecuted for continually allowing and encouraging breeding of mutants with wonky hips, breathing problems, poor sight, excessive flesh, docked tails, poor stamina, handbag sized“dogs” etc... healthy mongrels every time for me!
 
Squawkins- Eugenics for humans! They are just animals.
It's not a big deal. HITLER DINDU!
Internet- OK, NAZI-BOOMER. Time for Inquisition.
You- ...b-but...m-muh dogs are people religion?
Me- You just proved you should be culled by Dawkins.
 
When you grow up and realize that authors you idolized in college like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris because they were edgy and anti-religion are actually racist af.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Well evolution always has a messed side effects. Why do we have an appendix that is prone to inflammation when we don’t really need it. There are multiple breeds of dogs where we choose one attribute of wolf/dog that was most useful to us. How moral is that however....?
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Be brave and quote the two tweets in their entirety: twitter.com/RichardDawkins…
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
There’s no end to it. The current “fashion” is to breed German Shepherds so they walk on their back knees. pic.twitter.com/2UAstLnRnM
 
Pugs are pure, adopt pugs.
 
 
This whole “of course it works” line of thought feels like the sort of missing-the-point pedantry that I used to get up to on the regular
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
This is the best and most intelligent comment I’ve seen in regards to Dawkins being trending.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Dawkins is a visionary and a revolutionary biologist. His thoughts on genes and phenotypes are absolutely groundbreaking. He has, however, completely lost the plot when he comments on society and politics.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Humans:*breed pugs to have short snouts for the looks of “cuteness” Pugs: *agonizing wheezing*
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I have a pug. He was the first thing I thought of when I read Dawkins’ tweet. “Of course it would” work. Humans are so great at knowing what’s a good trait. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Natural selection is a fully automated process! It does not need your help! For real, people who think a population is "declining" or "devolving" need to update their understanding of how evolution works. Outside of inbreeding, genetic decline is simply not a thing.
 
Eugenics works *on* dogs. It does not work *for* dogs.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
You get what you select for. If you select for cuteness, or friendliness, or a shiny coat, instead of qualities that would contribute to fitness...this is what you get. That doesn’t really address the point.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Pugs are smarter than #RichardDawkins . Pugs for the win!!! 🙌🏾
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Yeah, don't show the myriad of hunting dogs, working dogs, etc that prove his point! That'll show that you aren't just lashing out emotionally at "BAD MAN!"
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I'm not really a big fan of humans breeding dogs like these. There should be laws preventing breeding of animals if it's found to be detrimental to their health. The poor animal suffers it's whole life. Wolves are what dogs should be because that's natural.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Of course, you're forgetting every single other dog that was reasonably bred for good skills. 🤷‍♂️
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
This is a fine 'humility/cautionary' argument, but you know it doesn't address the root of the position he was arguing against.
 
 
 
There's while classes and books on scientific ethics but really this covers it.
 
This.
Also. Pugs should be fucking banned.
 
In reply to @inthehands
This tweet sums it up nicely:
 
Just look at Drax in Moonraker who wanted to repopulate the world with dancers from Seaside Special.
 
Now that is a more sensible response. It is not the eugenics but the application of eugenics
 
Eugenics works in reverse - evidence exist- Go to Morrison’s!
 
Hear that folks? Pugs are an abomination and are solid argumentative evidence of the evil of eugenics.
 
I have a vet tech friend who wants to ban breeding pugs to pugs because every one they see needs/had surgery to help it breathe and they still keep dying young of respiratory issues. The poor pups are literally gasping for air 24/7.
 
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Wow one dog breed is fucked up, eugenics destroyed bro! Such a shitty argument and I hate Dawkins
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I've read many tweets, and this was, without question, the finest tweet I have ever read on Masterchef.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
This might be the stupidest logic I’ve heard yet today. Eugenics doesn’t work because pugs exist. Lol pic.twitter.com/4uSv5ORfUs
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
I just hope that maybe the Buddhists are right and we do get re-incarnated: I want to see Dawkins come back as a dog preferably a pug!
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Breeding pugs “works” because breeders have never given a shit about the dogs’ health. With every generation they achieve exactly what they want. *For them*, it works.
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
We really need start breeding pugs with biggles or something because modern purebred pugs are way way too much pic.twitter.com/IJtYCZtMNO
 
In reply to @Gpoptosis
Works if you wanna deselect say "ginger" (over many generations) but not for other traits. Genius can come from "stupid" and vice versa. Sexual predisposition will never be selectable and large influences are certainly dependent on environmental factors.
 
 
In reply to @RichardDawkins
It doesn’t work for them though! Those animals suffer because of how humans have bred them. twitter.com/gpoptosis/stat…
 
<A slope-backed German shepherd, an Akita with hip dysplasia, a deaf dalmatian, and a teacup Yorkie burst into applause>
 
but do click through to hear what pug-in-heaven has to say! (all dogs go to heaven)
 
CN/W: Animal Cruelty (Eugenics/Purebreeding)
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